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Thread: Real Traditional Spey rod

  1. #11
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    Re: Real Traditional Spey rod

    Quote Originally Posted by corribspeycaster View Post
    as that is where a beginner would struggle with a long line
    And they sure do! Clearly you guys are pros. How long a cast would you think the majority of salmon fly fishers do?

    WG you must see the typical visiting salmon fisher all of the time? What is the normal length they cast?

    In my experience I would say most people cast about 20 yards (and it aint pretty to watch). These are not beginners BTW - just normal 'a few times a year' salmon fishers. That length, to catch salmon, is of course far enough. Now if that is true (and you may disagree) then why on earth have they bought a 75 or even 65ft head?

    I dont really understand why we 'need' the word 'fulcrum' in normal spey casting but I did find these videos from the two very good spey casters you mentioned.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSYnDzuwIac]Climbing Curve 1 - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GrXvTRwR-k]Climbing Curve 2 - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r4R61P38kA]Climbing Curve 3 - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewSpeyCasting#p/u/1/KcAy6qbals0]AndrewSpeyCasting's Channel - YouTube[/ame]

  2. #12
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    Re: Real Traditional Spey rod

    The term Fulcrum is extremely important, when that is understood bottom hand dominated speycasting falls in to place, the top hand remains as the fulcrum it is one of these most important pieces of double handed fly casting fundamentals that need to be learnt , the problems you mention are associated with top hand dominated casters, the fff principles also explain this very well, nothing difficult or complicated about the term fulcrum , many of these principles are taught by students of the legendry fly caster peter anderson, for any body wanting to improve their spey casting I would strongly advise looking up fulcrum fly casting principles/speycasting, i am not here to promote anyones websites but you will two pieces of superb information on how to improve you speycasting and that is with any length line.
    Bets Wishes Corrib

  3. #13
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    Re: Real Traditional Spey rod

    Quote Originally Posted by corribspeycaster View Post
    the top hand remains as the fulcrum it is one of these most important pieces of double handed fly casting fundamentals that need to be learnt
    That's really interesting but is not what happens in reality. (at least that's what I think!)

    A "fulcrum" or "pivot" point DOES exist on the rod 'lever' - but it isnt at the top hand!

    Look very closely at the RG video. The pivot point is about half way between the hands. The top hand moves towards the target about the same distance as the bottom hand moves away from the target. The cross over (fulcrum) is between them. This is how double-handed casting has been since time began.

    Casters do of course vary this. Some have the pivot point closer to their bottom hand (top hand dominated) and others e.g. Scandi have it closer to the top hand (underhand Spey casting). But it is always somewhere between. What you see in the best spey casters (like above) is pretty well in the middle - a nice sweet style that works in a balanced way.

    It is those that push the rod (both hands going in same direction) that really suffer with low tip speed.

    Now I'm thinking about it (and that's hard for me) perhaps mechanically the closer the pivot point is to the butt of the rod the faster the tip will travel – but on a long casting stroke and a long rod that would take some strength! (you can test this mechanically with a pencil).

    Here's Henrik (Underhand)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5V1vxR2cr0"]Master the Scandinavian Speycast with Henrik Mortensen - YouTube[/ame]

    And then the Champ (ex)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lNyfHGb3FM"]World Champion Spey Caster (Gordon Armstrong) - YouTube[/ame]


    Having watched these again - the only thing that seems to vary is the distance that the hands move in relation to one another - short stroke or long and of course how close the hands are together on the rod (wide apart for long stroke / close for short). The pivot point seems to be always fairly central between the hands.


    Cheers

    Colin

  4. #14
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    Re: Real Traditional Spey rod

    One of the finest explanations on fulcrum fly casting ive seen written.
    Andrew Tofts Tutorials
    The top hand is the fulcrum the lower hand is the lever I cant see any other any more rational explanation for using a double handed fly rod

  5. #15
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    Re: Real Traditional Spey rod

    Quote Originally Posted by cb View Post

    WG you must see the typical visiting salmon fisher all of the time? What is the normal length they cast?

    In my experience I would say most people cast about 20 yards (and it aint pretty to watch).
    You are pretty optimistic with your lengths, the better the beat the worse the caster and they still catch fish. The running line is often referred to as the backing; I have watched them fish with Windcutters and the colour change remains on the reel!

    The standard technique on one of the best beats is, badly cast 15 yards so it all ends up in a heap, allow the current to straigten the line, then strike as soon as a fish takes. It works!
    wyeman likes this.

  6. #16
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    Re: Real Traditional Spey rod

    Quote Originally Posted by williegunn View Post
    The running line is often referred to as the backing
    lol. I love it!

    Mind you when they have pools like Delene of Wester Elchies at their disposal I can see how they can catch fish. I haven’t fished it for 20 years - but can visualise it clearly it now! Taking my heap of line, then slowly unravelling it and swinging it around with such majesty :-)

    Corrib, I'll contact Andrew T and see if he really believes what he says about the top hand being the fulcrum. Study those videos! Remember the fulcrum or pivot point does not move - it just pivots.

  7. #17
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    Re: Real Traditional Spey rod

    And here is the classic and perhaps "original" underhand spey cast by Göran Andersson.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnc40QQKiVo]Underhand Technique - Göran Andersson performs the world's best Double Hand Flycasting Technique - YouTube[/ame]
    wyeman likes this.

  8. #18
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    Re: Real Traditional Spey rod

    This conversation really got going on our sister forum!:

    Fulcrum Spey Casting - Fly Fishing Forums

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